UPDATED – 08-21 -So much has happened in the Star Wars and Trek worlds since I first wrote this – like the release of Rise of Skywalker and several AWFUL seasons of ‘Nu’ Star Trek. Many people have ‘switched teams’ to become haters of Abram’s work. I was early to this conclusion! This post has been revised to account for new developments.
JJ THE DESTROYER OF WORLDS
JJ Abrams is a certified double murderer of Sci-Fi Franchises. Douglas Addams would likely describe Abrams’ takeover of any franchise as ‘the coming of the great white handkerchief‘ So Lets Roast Him here! He’s super rich, he’ll be ok!
By the time he took over Star Wars JJ had practice destroying beloved Sci-Fi franchises and a history of shabby treatment of original characters.
We saw the ‘JJ Abrams Style’ emerge and got a huge dose of FAIL when he decided to simply cease LOST and create perhaps the worst final episode of any show ever. Some people praised him anyway and acted like LOST was Twin Peaks. To waste years telling a story that seems complex and meaningful only to just cut it all off and call it a dream? The shows stories were simply never resolved. This should have had repercussions, but somehow it didn’t.
How did we let a madman lead us to end the Star Wars Saga with a movie SO BAD that it called the veracity Rotten Tomatoes forever into question? Part of it is Disney’s fault but JJ wrote those movies. Lets remember here – Rise of Skywalker was so bad that the cacophonous outcry allowed them to remove the CATS movie from theaters and just bury it unnoticed. Those peoples careers were saved – at the expense of our entertainment and people like Daisy Ridley.
When JJ Abrams and Bad Reboot show up they never have their own idea anymore. If ONLY Cloverfield had been a better monster! Lord of the Rings and Superman are his new projects, so get ready for a LOT of BAD TV and movies destroying beloved characters.
Lately JJ Abram’s movies only garner success because (some of) the characters in them were already beloved. The characters JJ creates are conspicuously bad when placed next to a great character like Luke, Han or Kirk – they can’t hold their own. So he NERFS and DESTROYS the original characters to make his characters look better. Thats how we got “Stupid Han” and “Cowardly Luke”.
He was really mixing the Star Wars elements in to Trek and people wondered what JJ was even looking to do. By the end he had united Trek fans into wanting him gone while the Star Wars fans seemed Unaware.
Most seemed to think “he improved Star Trek and will do better with Star Wars because Star Wars itself is better” All this proved is it wasn’t the same fans, WHO KNEW? Well, it’s a settled matter now. The Star Trek endeavor ended with Rise of Skywalker- which is MUCH worse than Star Trek V! So it wasn’t the material. And there’s a case William Shatner is the better director too. Flawed Star Trek V more or less makes sense and does no real damage. JJ could learn a lot from how Star Trek V’s respect for its lore made its sequel able to reach a higher level.
When the inevitable happened and JJ moved to Star Wars (leaving his talentless lackeys in control) people who liked both franchises just accepted Star Wars was doomed – to the utter mockery of their friends- for a time.
Trashing the Original Creator and Weaponizing the Fans Against One Another and All Critics
At any rate when JJ or Bad Reboot shows up the first thing they always do is passive aggresively trash the original creator for being a small minded guy whose stories were imperfect and sexist or otherwise insensitive. In Star Wars the opening shot was “The Force is Female”.This is an interestingly needless choice for a non corporeal energy field.
Then the idea is just thrown out there- unsupported – that Star Wars has and always was for young female fans rather than just “all Audiences and suitable for all children.” Why shouldn’t the Force be female? Well, thats not how the Force works. We have six movies about the Force that JJ cant be bothered with. In fact that Force Healing stuff is right out of the video games. Thats his story lore research summed up. He can’t be bothered.
All critics are scapegoated as racist and sexist. This is pure character assassination since there are No Orcs to be discriminated against or elves to have hurt feelings if you make comments them as a race. Not ONE Orc has ever been refused a job or called a bad name for hating a movie. So really JJ trivializes the problems of our time and weaponizes them against the fans and critics to make money. This used to be called “breaking legs to sell wheelchairs” So theres no more escapism.
This damage doesnt just buff out either. You’ve angered most of the fans in the process too. Its like the franchise has an ugly drug habit when hes done. Some people condemn it, others excuse it. None of the SciFi movie franchises Abrams touched has recovered yet – two years and change AFTER Rise of Skywalker. Its also been nearly TEN YEARS since the last Star Trek movie and theres just no WAY these NuTrek shows get grenlighted into movies. They suck.
A lot of this is the characters and stories are always paper thin. Three movies of Star Wars later WHAT do we know of Mas Cannata? She owned a cantina and had a lightsaber in a box she never explained. We know as much of Babu Frik- a character who has maybe three minutes of screen time. He’s also a better character. He at least made me laugh UN-IRONICALLY.
What you get in a JJ Abrams movie is the worst of the real world. He trades in “bottom of the internet anger.” He will latch on to ANY trend to make himself and his product appear paragons of modern tolerance. Its always Ham-Handed. He was so inartful working T&A into his movies he apologizes for Into Darkness BEFORE it hit theaters. He was right to apologize but didnt go far enough. He just wants things to happen on screen and makes them appear, the cost to the story dawns on him later! When George Takei thinks you’ve ruined Star Trek characters you cant really say “Well, clearly George is wrong because hes a bigot.”
The messages in the stories are angry and unrefined. JJ Oversimplifies it to – In Star Wars the message seems to be ‘Some men did some bad things a few times, so all men will be collectively punished by Rey’. That character is just living out wish fulfillment, beating on people that a 90 pound woman just cant physically overpower – and doing it routinely. She never loses a fight – or a hand – in three movies. This is called “Having No Arc”
JJ still has no clue why the Sequels characters didn’t work! “She never lost, she was really kind and brave and everyone like her, she had no flaws. It can’t be ME, people must be bigots!” This is like changing a hurricanes trajectory with a sharpie to look like you’re right! The reality is these movies motivated a LOT of fans to move the VERY FAR RIGHT politically. Just listen to Nerdrotic! So what was the point of the message again?
Starting the fans bickering is a tool. Its a flash-bang grenade to distract you and keep the fans at one another’s throats and away from his. He could care less what we think or how ugly what we say is so long as his shows or movies touched off the conversation. So much for a fun time at the movies! When people debate JJ Abrams movies they just end up stuck talking real world politics – which is the reverse of the point of escapist SciFi. Again- listen to Nerdrotic, its become so POLITICAL!
The arguments he inspires are this dumb- ‘your a real bigot because the idea of Non Binary Orcs (in the case of the coming Bad Robot Lord of the Rings show) starts you laughing” and ends with “If its so bad why call it Lord of the Rings?” You can apply this to Star Wars and Star Trek too.
The idea that we would “perfect Tolkien” is as much a waste of time as the idea we could “Improve on Gene Roddenberry or George Lucas at their own game” bit thats happening anyway.
The Lord of the Rings show sounds like a tire fire and is already dividing fans with ridiculous ‘Leaks.” Female Gandalf has given way to “Gay Gandalf” in the shows production “teaser” leaks. Look – you can make a fantasy show and have all the Tolkien-like stuff and just call it something else rather than call the best selling author of the 20th century a bigot. Nonetheless we’re seeing this on Amazon soon, complete with an apology to all the people Tolkien “Bad Touch-ed” in his books! This preposterous. JRR Tolkien was born in 1892 and had deep religious convictions he put into his writing. That’s Lord of the Rings. Take it or leave it, it doesnt need perfecting. The three Peter Jackson movies were great (and the Hobbit movies -where lots of it is Non-Tolkien, were just awful)
Divided and confused the fans then get a bunch of insane leaks – which are actually test balloons. The leaks that get the most traction on social media are made into an amazing trailer filled with the things filled with things the fans want to see. Then he builds the movie around the reaction to the trailer. Its been a long time since any JJ Abrams had all of the trailer in it.
Destroying beloved characters to cover for bad new ones is the Abrams way. Just wait til he ‘perfects’ Superman!
I have to start with two words – the Emperor.
What the FUCK? This character being alive just fucks up the Original Trilogy AND the Prequels! He never ever should have done this. The weird vampire Emperor we see is so dumb he builds his fleet in the place where its most vulnerable and keeps them there. There’s so much flashing light that flashing lights HEALTH WARNINGS were handed out. Before it starts and when you pause this movie on Disney Plus there’s a photosensitivity warning. Its also appears they already been have toned that down a bit. The Emperor always had a GOOD PLAN and was very skilled. They bring him back as an absolute idiot and skip explaining any of it. He’s alive, deal with it.
Han Solo is so much dumber in The Force Awakens then we’ve ever seen him before. JJ has to make him dumb because Han can only as smart as JJ- who is only just so smart. One of the ‘bonding moments’ where we’re supposed to understand and like the ‘new character’ Rey consists of Han getting ‘owned’ and beig shown he never knew just how to work the hyperdrive on his own ship- a line that destroyed most of the plot of Empire Strikes Back and made him an idiot in that movie too. This Deconstruction is everywhere in his movies. Just look at bi-polar Spock. He has less emotional control than a spree shooter!
Finn starts out interesting only to degenerate into a boring and one dimensional character to the point John Boyega rebelled against the bad writing on twitter. He’s a hardened trained killer Janitor. That has conveniently worked in the two most sensitive places that First Order has – Starkiller Base and The Supremacy’s tracking room.
JJ’s Luke Skywalker is a depressing jerk who is banished to an island due to Meagans Law. It’s a bummer. By the time we get to Rise of Skywalker the character’s a mess and as conflicted as Kylo Ren was supposed to be. There was no saving Luke. He dies a coward who skyped into a fight just to die anyway. Despite this JJ tries anyway and its just hard to watch.
The Force Awakens features continuity problems, friendships established in under two minutes and a story driven by non stop coincidences. Still – like his first Star Trek its really just a long beginning and some of the casting and ideas are just interesting enough. He leaves it to the next guy to square up the problems he caused. Then the next guy ends up being an outright vandal who punks the fans.
For fans of Star Wars the Abrams era ended the movies. They’re movies cancelled or on hold for being sub DCEU bad. Both franchises will now be reduced to mere pay service streaming video shows. Those tow shows avoid the Sequels all together. The Bad Batch- which is diving back into the Clone Wars while The Mandalorian is set just after the Original Trilogy. The Mandalorian is entertaining of occassionally maddeningly dumb. No one really talks about the Bad Batch. Theres so many seasons of Clone Wars and the end was well done. This show is not catching on as far as social media buzz.
Bravo JJ Abrams, you’ve done the one thing Roddenberry and Lucas couldn’t, made Star Wars and Star Trek unWatchable!
Addiction to Tropes and Contrivances
JJ Abrams is dependent on a trope generator to write anything, including a birthday card. He made one sort of good Trek movie which he then destroyed with a special edition commentary that was too honest and came off fan hating and trope-obsessed. “I made Kirk into Indiana Jones, notice he gains no advantage when he fights in this scene based on the plane scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark!” Yeah we already noticed it, but thanks. Then Into Darkness was a movie SO bad it destroyed any lingering sentiment for the previous movie and beat us up with a recycled plot that is now the ONLY plot JJ Abrams uses in a movie – The Bad Guy has a Death Star. By the time we got Force Awaken its a planet sized death star. When he returns in Rise of Skywalker he has THOUSANDS of Planet Killing Ships. He now exclusively uses Death Stars as our main Bad Guys Weapon.
Sure, maybe in his first Star Trek it was originally a Romulan Mining ship or is just a gigantic Federation Starship like in Into Darkness, but its basically a Death Star. In Rise of Skywalker JJ took this about as far as it could go with a FLEET of Death Star Star Destroyers. So his last FOUR Movies have had Death Stars. Yet, somehow I’m just sure he’s not done with this idea yet. Look for it in his upcoming Superman. Zod or Lex Luthor will have some kind of Death Star. Count on it.
A glimpse of what we were missing in the Cold Open only made Into Darkness worse. They just went to a planet. It was the best part of the movie – as stupid and brief as it was – and the ensuing nosedive has never ended.
Simon Pegg did make a FUN, decent Star Trek Movie in Star Trek Beyond, but it was too late. Goodwill was gone. There’s probably no path to another movie with the cast we were supposed to get a bunch of movies and shows from. After all that hype. At least Chris Pine can have his talent wasted in the enormously stupid DCEU in similar ridiculous stories. Poor Chris Pine….
Ever since he shot Harrison Ford in the head to make predictable tear jerk-er “Regarding Henry” Abrams has depended on big stars in key roles missing or dead parents to add some emotion to his loosely related series of vignettes. Hes also a serial abuser of Harrison Ford!
As JJs shows and movies proliferated it started to look a lot like he was only good enough to minimize his shortcomings. This is actually very accurate. Thanks for that one Critical Drinker! One shortcoming JJ covers well is his use of throw away lines to cover the non stop contrivances. This is done so much though it gets predictable and is now a sign hes skirting a plot hole – which then becomes obvious. JJ’s movies also have as many scenes stitched together with dialogue added later as ‘organic ones’ in some cases. The story of a JJ Abrams movie is a moving target that needs heavy editing and lots of re-shoots to square up dialogue. Lots times he still doesn’t get things to add up. When this happens, provided the movie isn’t simply over – he hits the nitrous injector and uses any excuse to have an action scene. This adds to his pacing problems every time
JJ counts on people not thinking about the non stop conveniences of his plots and doesn’t trust viewers to be given any information that isn’t dispensed during a fight. For instance, people merely run into one another, or in Rey’s case – have an initial conflict and then bond for no real reason.
The way BB-8, Rey and Finn merely collide with each other then randomly jump in to – of all ships – the Falcon – then merely collide with Han and Chewie in the space of about four minutes. After that theres some confusing dialogue, 110 seconds later two different pirate factions show up and trigger a bad action scene that undermines Han and Chewie. So throw in “Terrible Pacing” Theres a real contempt for viewers intellects as he unspools a bunch of loosely connected cool looking but substance free scenes.
In the Star Trek movies he’s a one trick pony killing one each of Kirk and Spock’s parents On Screen in the first 40 minutes of his first Star Trek movie. 20 minutes into Into Darkness he kills Kirk’s surrogate father, Pike. So both characters are now partly motivated like Batman.
The first signs of this show up during LOST when AOL internet was all about LOST and he would let go false rumors to enhance the impact of the episode. Now he’s got a lot more Social Media and he’s addicted to using it dupe people. Theres dishonesty in his trailers too, hes just test screening ideas with them a lot of the time.
In the infamous DVD Special Edition commentary to his first Trek movie Abrams gave away a little too much. Like when he tells us Captain Kirk is now based on Indiana Jones. The concept would have been better had he not boasted of it and dispelled the magic of the moment as he explained the point for point similarities to the fight where Kirk and Sulu fight some Romulan goons and the iconic ‘Spinning German Plane Fight’ from “Raiders of the Lost Ark” He was stoned or snorted truth serum, its insulting but I’m GLAD I listened to it. I realized he was a Fan-hating hack and the sequel was doomed
More importantly to the “Star Treky-ness” of the new franchise, Abrams simply threw away the idea that we would just go to a planet and hang around observing and exploring or that the stakes could be the lives of some of the characters we love. It seemed to be a concept that was scrupulously avoided to say risk the ship, struggle with the Prime Directive and possibly encounter a race analogous to the current state of Humanity or any combination of those things. Now we only ever have super high stakes rather than our characters well-being being enough to move us.
In a way all his movies lack real heroes. Rey is simply a God-Like Creature, so maybe she’s a true hero, but wow is she ever boring. You know shes always gonna win.
He never did Star Trek at its best, where it shines a light into a flaw inherent in humanity and aspires towards a future where we’re simply more reasonable. No one expected that lofty theme all the time, but it never got any attention. The fact is JJ Abram’s movies have no feel other than nonstop unexplained action. There’s no optimism. There’s no time for any reflection. There’s always another thing to blow up.
Episodes of the Next Generation did it all the time and the Original series of course pioneered thoughtful optimistic plots. Would it have been that bad to give it a try even as a subplot? Star Trek became mere action and adventure where the stakes were super high. Karl Urban and Chris Pine were all Star Trek had giving it the appearance of coherence. They did great jobs in bad movies.
JJ Abrams was largely successful in his endeavors to change and destroy Star Trek. Then, in a shocking turn of events he got his dream job, to destroy Star Wars. Again he was largely successful.
The cash grab for toy money was so crass and obvious it forced some ‘Legally Necessary Dialogue’ into the Disney Star Wars movies. Who doesn’t love warm Disney Star Trek moments like when C-3PO pointlessly makes mention of his red arm? It stuck out as bad and it was just so obvious why the line was in the movie. It was unseemly. JJ will do this every chance he gets. He also loves superficial changes.
In so many words; it was all so that JJ Abrams could get his own ‘red armed C-3PO toy’ out there and keep more toy money! There’s other examples you’ll easily find if you watch with the idea “Abrams is trying to secure a toy revenue stream” in mind. So the quality of the dialogue is secondary to selling stuff – this adds up when its on top of the story being thin and paced very quickly at times. So the movies are, in a sense, long commercials where we pay to be pitched things.
When he left Trek the story was ‘JJ Abrams only ever wanted to be the Star Wars guy’ and the stopover at Trek was complicated by his disdain for the franchise. He wanted it to be more like Star Wars and it couldnt have been more obvious. This extended to having tons of collectibles like never before. By the way these are still all on Enay for cheap.
Abrams was aware that the merchandising had been the sweetest peach for Lucas and he was trying to do the same thing. Stories of petty obsessions with toy revenue and disputes with the original cast would also surface occasionally, only making Abrams look worse.
Lucas was also pretty mercenary about getting his Toy Money but his movies and merchandise were just better. Lucas gear, weapons, ships and tech just looked cooler and made more sense too. They seemed logical and made several cool sounds each. Han’s blaster has an analogue kind of cocking action sometimes. Reys blaster looks like a VAPE RIG!
Lucas invented the idea of Lightsabers and made them seem real. Lightsabers sound awesome when activated, their passive hum and the sounds when they’re wielded also are amazing and captivating. Anakin’s lightsaber and even Maul’s are infinitely cooler than Kylo Ren’s badly thought out, unstable bladed angst-saber. It just which looks awkward, clumsy and dangerous to the user. Lucas was just better at weapons…and ships, droids and stories. Whats BB-8 but R2’s head on a soccer ball? (sorry european readers! this is an american blog).
JJ CAN ONLY WRITE BEGINNINGS
Anyone saying JJ Abrams ‘only writes beginnings” is absolutely RIGHT ON! The last half decent movie he made, his first Star Trek, was one long beginning. The next movie, Into Darkness was just one long bloated middle with no proper start or finish. It almost ended Benedict Cumberbatch as an actor it was so bad!
In the case of both Trek and Star Wars he wrote himself and the franchise semi – excitingly into an ultimately boring corner that pre-compromised the next movie. The Force Awakens was okay until the sequel destroyed it as lots of false cannon and quickly abandoned ideas both good and bad. He’s also about the only writer to have less plot ideas as he goes forward.
On the bright side he got away with a few shortcuts. The launching of the First Order Assault ships was unnoticed by most as a re-hash of his original Star Trek movies credit sequence as shuttles escape the doomed USS Kelvin. I don’t know how he got away with this one, so similar. I think that’s when he really starts thinking everyone’s an idiot but him as the movies have more and more blatant tropes and more big budget moments shoe-horned in to inject some excitement into dull stories.
For Star Trek after he leaves things improve fast then get infinitely worse. We got a near Abrams free movie and Beyond was enjoyable, refreshing and very much a return to form. Fans were already pre-heated and angry though and the movie underperformed. Sadly this seems to have had a discrediting effect on more relatable plots and Discovery has been abysmal. The lessons of the Abrams era were lost and the mistakes are now being compounded in Star Trek Discovery, a show that was mostly a plagiarized soap opera otherwise pilfered from a videogame….badly.
In Star Wars we actually get a pretty bad beginning from JJ in The Force Awakens. This was not immediately obvious to all as the demand for the movie was huge and the cast was interesting and peppered with people we already loved.
Derivative and Poorly Paced
The movie is uneven on the first view. The cut and paste lifting of scenes ended up feeling more like plagarism than any kind homage. The scenes have been done bfore better and this plagues the entire trilogy.
The movie throws endless conveniences at us. The cast is scattered around the dueling, nonsensical plots. You needed to Google after the fact to even know that the planet we see destroyed in the New Republic isn’t Coruscant. It looks just like it, BUT – it’s some place called Hosnian Prime, thats not in the movie though. They merely mention the system name- which is information without context and doesnt change our impression.
We NEVER find out why blowing up one 5 planet system ends the New Republic. We just move on.
We spent SIX MOVIES trying to save and then Re-Establish this Republic and it’s just wiped away in a 2 minute effect scene (that has serous logical flaws). We never address WHY the Republic had no presence outside this system. Its a major flaw and shows JJ does NOT under the concept of “Paying Things Off” in a movie. I guess their fleet and entire military was there waiting to be ‘Pearl Harbor-ed’ too.This was a stupid idea.
The defecting Stormtrooper was in itself an ok concept until Rise of Skywalker when we find out it happens all the time! So we have moral equivalence between factions now! Why not ask Stormtroopers to just surrender occasionally? The First Order’s power level, origin, size and goals are never made clear or just dont make sense. There’s really NO reason to hunt down Luke. If blowing up the Republic he built doesnt get his attention hes dead or useless (and ends up both by the end).
Then the destruction went into Overdrive when JJ leaves a bad beginning to incompetent hack Rian Johnson. So we end up with inscrutable tale of depression, The Last Jedi. In this movie both plots start with bad jokes that fall flat. The obsession with subversion kills the film over and over. Rian Johnson also didn’t really distinguish himself with his self-important ‘trick’ ending fail. Johnson essentially purges the old fans by just wrecking as much of the franchise as he can without really advancing the story.
Who didn’t pity poor Mark Hamill, forced to play Skywalker as a guy who toys with murdering children? Like Han Solo being a bad dad wasn’t enough? This is still sort of on JJ!
Johnson gives us the Salt Planet duel that sucked the life out of the franchise once and for all. Then Luke dies but doesn’t die. Then dies, kind of. Then we’re back to JJ doing the onerous task of reconciling this and shows off his weakest trait -damage control! He compounds problems!
Moving forward when Rise of Skywalker DOES show up we got maybe the worst 2 hours of backpedaling action packed nonsense you could ever imagine. Paying off stuff was abandoned and the band aid on the story was never gonna work. Light Speed skipping is a Band Aid to fix Hyperspace tracking – Johnsons fault – but JJ made it worse – now TIE Fighters can do it instead of just the biggest ships. So now no one can ever escape anyone cleanly.
In Rise of Skywalker we stumbled through a broken world in the movie equivalent of an Estate Sale. The new characters all failed. Rey was essentially a female Superman and deeply boring. Kylo was gonna be unstable. Finn and Poe would do whatever the plot needed. There was nothing to do but look at the odds and ends of what was once a great collection of films reduced to the sum of its parts. There’s whole essays on how bad this movie is. Things like a third variation of the lead characters backstory and never seeing much of any of the original cast together are on him. Theres so many soft deaths, like C-3Po and Chewie. Then the end of the end was just a badly done joke. Burying Anakin’s and Leia’s lightsabers on a planet they hated and spent time as slaves. Wow. In the sand that Anakin so hated. He never understood the characters or watched the other movies! Who knew?!
Perhaps this is the best way to sum up the “genius” of JJ Abrams- both Star Wars and Star Trek have ALL FUTURE MOVIES ON INDEFINITE HOLD AND ARE ONLY PRODUCING STREAMING PAY TV SHOWS. The So-Called Kelvin Timeline goes on, boring and offending all.
Highly flawed Star Trek Discovery, mired in a plagiarism lawsuit that Star Trek writers should have been above, are now going to do what the Abrams dictate demands – Treat original characters with total contempt.
Discovery is stuck in a badly plagiarized and predictably over the top world of super high stakes. The shows got a lot of flaws but the stakes being way too high is a constant. So’s the lack of humanity the characters show. Casualties among the crew don’t give the commanders pause.
We’re sadly diving into another AWFUL ‘for pay’ self-hating season of disappointing Star Trek Discovery. This show – by Bad Robot’s spin-off destructive Reboot Mangler is designed to make fans angry. The idea is to PURGE the fans of old Star Trek and make subpar space soap operas that drag on for TEN HOURS! In Star Trek we’ve trashed the idea of optimism, stakes, and the idea of telling a coherent story.
Adding insult to injury in season 2 of trainwreck Discovery went hard after the original show, with a new (as in NOT Zachary Quinto) Spock who was a pot smoking EMO mess. The obvious ‘save’ for Discovery would be to have them always have been from a parallel universe to begin with and an honorable way out. Bad Robot’s scion Secret Hideout wont stop lying about this though.They insist this is the primary timeline. Its NOT, they just know how easy it would be for a good writer to dismiss their garbage – which they have made so complex it can never make sense again without a HARD reboot.